Colorado Mammoth Message Board

I think I can speak for most fans that were at the game last night, that it seemed wrong that the refs could re-review a goal at halftime. Whether the goal was indeed good or not, that doesn't bear on my thinking.

1. If the initial goal had not been challenged, would they have reviewed it at half-time? NO
2. Since it was already reviewed in the second period, how can they review it a second time? If he "didn't get a good look" the first time, then he shouldn't have made a conclusive call when he first reviewed it.
3. Do the refs have the right to review every goal at half-time and every goal at the end of the game?

I think we are all looking for some answers about that.

Also, what was the deal with the ref signaling a good goal in the third period, but the goal never counted? It seems like the reffing is getting out of hand in the NLL.

I was speaking with some other fans after the game and we are pretty much all of one mind on this one and would like a "conclussive" answer to this odd situation that took place.

Furthermore, and only somewhat related and with serious tongue in cheek, if this is a legal action, can we review all goals scored this season and if so, wouldn't that possibly give us a few more wins?

Back to serious, that call on the re-review was extremely questionable and I've searched but find no information regarding this type of action is taken in these cases. Please clarify. Thanks.

yeah, and he pointed to show that it was our ball at one point during the 3rd or 4th and then gave them the ball. i dont get many calls from last night. please clarify and try to do something about it if indeed those calls were bogus. i hope the league sees how wrong last nights officiating was.

_________________
*2006 NLL Champions*

From what I heard, to put a little light on the situtation, he was shown the prior goal the Mammoth scored which was good, and made his call based upon that. The real question is, if he was watching the game like he should've been... how'd he not know it was the wrong goal he was watching?

Ya, that's the real question right there. When there were only TWO goals in the game at that point, each on separate sides of the field, completely different shots, the ref can't tell the difference? They got the reply right on the jumbotron and on the TV broadcast, but can't get the right replay to the ref? There are just too many things that don't add up about this.

Chet was not the official on that side of the field. By his own admission, he did not even see the real time goal. He, as the head ref, is required to watch and make the judement on the replay, and make this decision in short order. The Mammoth staff replayed the wrong goal, which was CLEARLY a goal, he awarded it to the Mammoth. At halftime he was able to discuss the goal with his partner, it became obvious he watched the worng goal on the replay. The real debate here should be whether it is right to disallow the goal after play has been substantially resumed. Chet made his decision based on the "integrity of the game". I personally disagree with the decision and told him so. He had to make an ethical decision in a very short time span, you have to respect that.

I expect the league to have a few new rules pop out of this incident.

_________________
Who has the Mic? A Doosh!

Same here.

One suggestion I made to Chet, and I will make here as well, is that it would probably be best if both refs were watching the replay. Yeah, it would get a little tight in the booth, but so what.

In this case, the other ref, being the one that actually made the call on the goal, would've been able to point out right away that they were not seeing the correct replay.

In the end, it would still be the crew chief making the call, but it needs to be correct the first time.



Yep.

This incident is bizarre to say the least.

This is the story to the best of my knowledge.

The game at that time was 3-1 for Boston at about 7:25 left in the 2nd quarter. Alex Gajic took a shot that appeared to enter the net off of the goalie's back. The lead official immediately waved off the goal. Hammer through the challenge flag immediately following the official's signal.

The game DVD, the technical personnel and most of you in the building can attest to what happened next. The monitor in the penalty box is equipped with the exact feed that is shown on the jumbotron. The Pepsi Center because of our relationship with Altitude also is able to show all the television replays.

There were six replays of the goal in question. 2 jumbo tron feed replays and 4 Altitude feed replays, all of them were available to the official. When the official enters the penalty box puts the head set on and has access to all replays and can manipulate them to make the call correctly (forward/back/slow motion/different angles, etc.). He is supposed to consult with the official that made the call, if it isn't him, as to what he saw and why he made the call he did, so that if he didn't see it, he at least has the basis of what happened.

After the flag is thrown, the jumbotron always shows replays as the official is making his way into the box, those replays can be reshown at any time at the direction of the official. Two angles of A. Gajic's shot were shown before the official enters the box. The feed then clicks over to the Altitude feed of A. Gajic's shot, where the offical watches three separate replays. At that point he takes the head set off, exits the bench and signals a goal. As he is exiting the box, the final Altitude replay from over head shot of the crease is playing, he neglects to watch this feed. He neglects to ask to see the first two and the last replay, he makes his call based on three angles but doesn't request the others available, he also doesn't ask for slo motion or to see other angles, he says nothing to the replay technician.

Following the signal he goes over to Tom Ryan and tells him that he saw the ball "bulge" the mesh. Ryan is on record with the League that the official said this. In fact, the final replay that the official missed showed from over top the ball clearly did not go in. It hit the pipe and hit the goalie's back and rolled across the line, never fully crossing it. 15,000 people in Pepsi Center and countless watching on Altitude watched the jumbotron show the ball didn't cross the line, the official is the only one that didn't watch it.

There is NO question that the replay shown was the correct one. All the DVD's of every feed show, as well as statements by both the replay technician and the Altitude production crew, that the Alex Gajic goal was shown with 6 different angles. More angles than any other building in the NLL!!!

The goal stands for the remainder of the period, for 7:30 minutes the game was 3-2. At halftime for some completely unknown reason the offical begins to seek out the Altitude production manager and wants to see the goal again. He suggests that the Mammoth showed him the "wrong goal" on the replay. This is categorically untrue, and there is recorded evidence and statements to the contrary. The only other goal was Jed Prossner on a breakaway that wasn't even close, and that replay was never shown at the time of the Alex Gajic shot that hit the post.

At the referee's request, the jumbotron and Altitude feeds are completly reconfigured so that they can be viewed again. The operations staff scrambles to give the official exactly what he is asking for but tells him repeatedly that he can't do that. Upon further review at half time the official determines after actually watching all the angles that the ball didn't in fact cross the line or "bulge" the net as he previously stated.

The Mammoth return from halftime and the goal had been taken away. The score now 3-1, the team is completely deflated because this action is completely unprecedented and not allowed within NLL rules. I spend the remainder of the half on the phone with League officials attempting to get it made right, but to no avail, the League officials would not intervene in the game to put the goal back on the board.

After the game, the official tells me directly, we showed him the "wrong" goal and that it was our fault. Again all recorded copies of the game show exactly what he saw, and show that the goal he saw was Alex Gajic's shot on net, that did not bulge the net or cross the goal line, contrary to his different statements at the time and subsequently.

Now we find out that somehow the official didn't know what he was looking at and was "confused" by what he was seeing on the jumbotron because he didn't see it the first time because he was the trail official. Either way, the replay he saw, never crossed the goal line, that is proven by video evidence, regardless of whether he knew what was happening or not. He called it a goal and the NLL says he can't change a call after it has been made regardless of citing rule 17.4. Once a call is made, right or wrong, its made, no changing it later! If that wasn't the case, I would like to request a reveiw of that official's call in the playoffs of 2007 when he called a goal when San Jose had two men in the crease at the time!!

The League doesn't release their discipline of officials to the teams until after the season so I won't see this until sometime in the off-season.

His story has changed so many times, I am still baffled by the whole thing.

SG

Steve,

Thank you very much for that information. It is really great to have you come on these boards and answer some of our questions. The incident is completely baffling with all the information that you've laid out. I know they say that if you didn't win the game because of a blown call, then you shouldn't have won it anyway... but I clearly see a lack of league responsibility to enforce fair officiating. This makes me cringe and I'm going to see about making a formal complaint to the NLL.