Colorado Mammoth Message Board

Does restricted free agency work the same way in NLL as it does in other sports? Is a RFA player free to look elsewhere once free-agency starts, and if they get an offer from another team, the current team can match the offer and retain their rights?

Is it typical for teams, especially the Mammoth, to let RFAs test the market for a bit first or do you try to make an offer to the player before he tests the waters?

The reason I ask is because Prout is a RFA. I would think that being the team leader and face of the franchise, we would try to keep him by offering him a contract before he would have the chance to leave. Is this typical, to offer a contact beforehand? Has Prout been offered a contract by the Mammoth but is looking elsewhere or has a contract yet to be offered by our organization?

How about the other RFAs? Any status?

**Assuming you are free to comment on any of this**

I'd also like an answer to this, if possible.

In a similar vein, I thought it a bit strange that there were no franchise player selected as well. Was this done as a move to test the market on potential trade deals?

But overall it does come as a bit of a shock that Prout seems to be left out there.

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Go Hawks.

For some reason I thought I had answered this question already but here goes...

Restricted Free Agency is pretty much exactly like it is in other sports, a player who qualifies through his age and tenure in the League can qualify for RFA status when the team pays him less than the League average, offers him less than what he made last year or doesn't make him a qualifying offer. Restricted Free Agents are free to solicit offers from other teams and the Mammoth have the right to match offers within 72 hours of those offers being submitted to the League. We will always retain the right to match any offers.

I know the question here is mostly about Gavin Prout, but I can only comment to say that we decided that we would not make Prout and Nash qualifying offers. Their agent asked last season if we would do this, we didn't last season, but decided based on their significant commitments to the Mammoth over the years, that we would allow them to gauge interest elsewhere this offseason. The agent was informed that they were free to test the waters out there to establish current value and interest throughout the League. Currently there have been no offers made to them that I have been made aware of.

Franchising players is only necessary when there is a qualified Unrestricted Free Agent that you are afraid might leave your team. The cost associated with the Franchise tag is an additional 25% over and above the maximum player salary. Currently, we beleive, based on our offseason discussions that any player on the Mammoth that may qualify for Unrestricted Free Agency is very happy to be with us therefore it was not necessary to use the Franchise Tag for this season. Qualifications for Unrestricted Free Agency are based on players that are 32 years of age and have at least 6 seasons of tenure in the League. Very few of our players qualify for that status at this time.

Now that we have completed the 2009 NLL Entry draft the picture for the 2010 season is becoming clearer. We are having several discussions with several teams on a number of fronts, we hope to gain further clarity in the coming weeks.

Great question and hopefully everyone stays tuned.

SG

Steve..

Thanks as always for the clarity.

In other sports ( I'm thinking specifically of the NHL) GMs are hesitant to sign RFAs to offer sheets. A specific example would be the very public fued between Kevin Lowe and Brian Burke, when Lowe signed Dustin Penner to an offer sheet. Fans are led to believe offer sheet signings are typically a last resort and a source of alienation between rival club's management.

In the NLL do GMs feel free to use this as a method for obtaining players? I believe the NLL community is much tighter then the NHL's and I don't often hear of RFA movement, relative to UFA signings and trades. Just curious on the take of an insider.

Hello Again,

I just wanted to come on this open forum again as I saw that my name had been brought into the answering of toast88's initial inquiry about the RFA status of Gavin Prout. I typically don't comment about contract negotiations but since SG is comfortable in doing so then I am equally open to providing my insight as to what went on during my contract talks prior to last season.

SG Wrote;
"Their agent asked last season if we would do this, we didn't last season, but decided based on their significant commitments to the Mammoth over the years, that we would allow them to gauge interest elsewhere this offseason."

When we opened contract negotiations last season my agent sent SG a counter offer based on my original qualifying offer. Upon review of this counter offer SG informed my agent that he had tried to trade me to every other team in the NLL but had no interest. Based on this claim my agent and I simply requested that SG rescind his original qualifying offer and tender a lower offer that would all me to become and RFA so that I could "test the waters" myself to see, if in fact, that there was no interest. Shortly after declining this request SG and my agent came to terms on a contract that was acceptable to both sides. I wanted to specifically clarify this issue of my requesting RFA status last season because it could look as though that I was asking to leave the team and the city of Denver when that request had never been made but was simply apart of the negotiation process. Regarding this season I simply did not receive an offer from SG thus rendering me an RFA. Although no offer sheet has formally been signed my agent is continuing talks with interested GMs about my services for this coming season.

I am really impressed with the off field knowledge of some of the Mammoth fans regarding the inner workings of our collective bargaining agreement. I will state again that, although no longer contractually obligated to post on this forum, I seem to find newer and more enjoyable posts each time I log onto this forum. Thank you for allowing me to share my sides of the above issues.

All the best,
Gee Nash

Gee,

Thanks for posting on our forum! The "Gee Nash" after you made a save will always resonate in "The Can".

you know gee, we are not all just paint and insanity. we know our stuff.

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I would like to meet the guy that invented beer, and buy that dude a beer.

I can read this stuff all day! It doesn't get better than your team's GM and a couple star players battling out contract issues over a team forum! Gee and Gavin, I don't know what you did to tick SG off but please, for me, keep it up so us fans can continue to read these posts during the off season!

I also would like to comment on this particular thread.
Gee did a wonderful job explaining his situation last year and I too would like to clear up any confusion to my status.
I would first like to thank all the fans for their continued interest not just in my future but the future of the Mammoth. You definitely are the most passionate fans I have ever met, and yes Spike some of the most educated.
I was lumped into Gee Nash's situation in Steve's post, solely based on the fact that we have the same agent. I would like to clarify that I did not ask for my contract to be rescinded, nor did I ever ask to become an RFA in my entire career with the Mammoth, and I still have not. I was pleased with my initial contract last year and signed it without any further negotiations needed between Steve and my agent.
When I came to the Mammoth I made it very clear to Steve and my agent that this is a team and organization that I would like to end my career in. Little did I know my career may end with the Mammoth sooner than I ever expected. I believe I have many more years of productive lacrosse left in my career, however I was not offered a qualifying offer by Steve and therefore automatically became a RFA. When I posed the question as to why, my agent said that Steve was interested in going in a different direction. I can only assume that this direction did not involve me as a player or leader in the Mammoth dressing room.
Much like Gee, although Steve may not be aware of any offers other teams have put forth, there are many teams that have expressed interest in my services. I do know there are plenty of trade rumours involving me but nothing has come to fruition in regards to qualifying offers or trades to date.
I too am wondering what I did to "tick SG off", I have given everything I had to this organization both on and off the field and I hope to be able to continue this in the future. Unfortunately my future lies in the hands of the GM and if he does not want me back in the Mammoth organization then I have no other choice but to regretably move on.
Once again thanks for your interest in this matter, just my 2 cents.

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Gavin Prout
www.4benefits.ca

Just like the change in atmosphere when Foresberg left the Avs or Culter left the Broncos or any fan favorite leaves (or is traded or whatever) a team I hope the upper management has thought about what kind of impact the loss of some players will do to the bottom line. The change of "direction" on a team can end up with teams at the bottom of the ranks with a bad attendance just as easily as it can re-energize the team to a winning streak.

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Mammoth Hooligan

No one ever wants to see a fan favorite pack their bags, especially faces of the franchise like Gavin and Gee. However, a changing of the guard does happen from time to time. I just hope that if we decide to not keep Gavin or Gee, we don't just let them walk.

It's clear that both players still have something to give to this league and would be prime assets to any team. Letting them simply walk (be it due to personal conflicts or a genuine change of strategy) would be irresponsible to the fans, organization and the players themselves. Losing a captain and goaltender leaves a big hole to fill, especially in the fans' hearts. Hopefully, if they do leave, we get a more than equal return for their value; One that doesn't leave a bitter taste in the mouth like Forsbergs of the past. Otherwise, expect a fan base as ravenous as this to come unglued.

I want to be perfectly honest here. Gavin is correct, he did not ask to be an RFA last season. I incorrectly included him in the discussion about the last contract process. Gavin's contract discussions were nothing less than amicable. Gavin and Gee do have the same agent, and I believe, that he and I have a very solid relationship.

Whatever decisions that have been made or, are yet to be made, are done with the best interests of the organization in mind; none are made by one person, and none are made without full consideration of the potential positive and negative effects on the long and short term potential outcomes. The organization's sole on-floor emphasis is to bring a championship to our fans, something we have not done for the last 3 seasons.

Neither Gee nor Gavin have "ticked me off", I still consider them to be among the most talented lacrosse players in the League. I believe both will have long fruitful careers within the Mammoth organization or elsewhere if that is what ultimately transpires. Gee has asked to be moved, Gavin has not, we are considering all the options on both fronts.

If trades are a consideration for any player, value will be determined by a number of factors. Unfortunately, past passion for a particular player does not increase his value on the open market today. In any transaction the seller is always trying to get the most from any asset, the buyer on the other hand doesn't always agree. The gamble is always the calculated guess as to whether stocks are rising or falling.

As I suggested in my earlier post, with regard to any Mammoth Restricted or Unrestricted Free Agents, I have not been made aware by the players, the agents, or most importantly, the League, of any current offers from other teams to those players, we will respond to those offers as they are presented to us.

Thank you all for your interest.

SG

Thank you Gee. Thank you Gavin. Thank you Steve.

Love you guys. You are all true champions.

Even though it's been a little uncomfortable....cough....in these forums at times, thank you all again for reaching out to the fans.

We'll be there beginning to end, screaming for whomever wears the jersey. I know to some on here that makes me a mindless homer, but it's the truth.

Steve, I know you have to do whatever you think is right for the organization. Change is inevitable. I trust in you and will stand behind you with my voice, time and money, and hope that every move pays off.

Gee and Gavin, you guys are awesome. I don't want to see you play anywhere else. Regardless of what happens I wish you well.

All that said, how does the organization get better by subtracting Gavin Prout? I've read the discussions and maybe there is a deal out there, but I'll admit I'm not knowledgable enough to provide that scenario.

It may be impossible now, but I truly hope everything works out for the best for everyone. Each of you is a class act and deserves it.

To Gee and Gavin,

You will always be remembered to many of the fans as #38 and #9! Lets face it you were a major reason that we have a championship banner is hanging in "The Can". I wont forget, it was cool! We also know how many things you did off the field, take a photo, or sign an autograph for anyone that asked.

I really do not like the issues of your contracts being discussed on the forums. Personnel issues should be discussed behind closed doors like any other company, coporation, or public entity and not in the court of public opinion. These are issues that should be between your agent (whom you both share), SG, and yourselves.

I do realize that the organization also needs to look out for the future of the team. I would not pretend to know what to do or see how everyone fits on a 23 person roster.

Well, when you get down to it, fans of the NLL treat this league like any other, and that means we look for the rumors, we talk about signings or potential signings and trades, and we like to discuss these things openly.

Everybody from ESPN on down have people that are paid to find out what exactly is being said behind all those closed doors. And that information gets out in the end; it's part of being a sports league.

Yet here we have Govett as well as players willing to share information freely, which just doesn't really happen in the major sports leagues, and I for one think it's awesome.

Thanks for your comment HopAlum, I fully agree that the parameters of our contracts normally should not be spoken about but if there was something written out of context or that could be interpreted a different way, both Gee and myself are the first ones to clarify our situations/positions so no rumours are started. If you read Gee's initial post and I also share the same view it states...

"I typically don't comment about contract negotiations but since SG is comfortable in doing so then I am equally open to providing my insight as to what went on during my contract talks prior to last season."

This is the only reason why we have both reached out to the fans to offer our side of the story.

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Gavin Prout
www.4benefits.ca

Isn't it McMahon who should be let go...?

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Gee Willikers Batman!!

Golly, we haven't heard that one before...