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 Post subject: I am upset...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Steve,

Upset is not the right word but I am trying to be socially acceptable.

I found myself wanting to leave at about midway through the 3 quarter tonight. It had nothing to do with the action on the floor. At halftime I was able to see my friends Voodoo, Ronin, and Spike with the so called limited edition blackout jerseys on. My first thought was, wow they missed some of the game to go get in line. Wow was I wrong when I noticed they were customized with their own names and numbers. I know some seamstresses, but none of them are that quick.

I left after the third quarter, the first time I have left early, EVER. There was a clamoring for these jerseys for weeks and you knew people wanted them. I respected the fact that there was only going to be a limited amount due to a supply issue and that there was going to be a higher price for the ones available (check my posts). To see three, so called, scarce jerseys already customized with certain fans names is wrong. What special service did they render? I noticed no other Tar pit members with these jerseys. Are all of the other season ticket holders or fans not as special?

I am only speaking for myself here, but my respect for the organization dropped today, and I am sure I am not the only one.

-Scott

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Wow! Someone beat me to it. I feel the exact same way! I was 34ish in a line of 60+ people when they announced they price. The line cut in half. I was suddenly in good spirits as I knew I could get my hands on the LE jersey. I returned to my seat with the grin of the chessire cat on my face. I glance up at the jumbo tron and see the custom jersery my friend is wearing. Thoughts of jealousy run through my head. I start comparing stats. He has not missed a game (neither have I), He went to a road game in AZ with a group, (I flew to Minnie by myself), He went to the Champions cup game in Buffalo...... oh wait only 2 people from the "famed" TAR PIT went to Buffalo and that was only because they got their trip comped from BPI. So out of these "die hard" fans that seemed to have some how "deserved" a custom jersey non of them paid to go see their favorite NLL team in the biggest game to date. Not that myself and the other 30+ fans that made the trip to Buffalo are any better than those who didn't but why are these 3 so special? Cause they sit in a certain section? Cause they paint their faces? What gives them the right to such special treatment. Oh wait, Voodoo is a mod on this site.... but where is Robbs then? This has left the worst foul taste in my mouth I can barely stand it. I am now debating if I should put the black out jersey that I actually paid for, while missing part of the game, on Ebay. Or if I should man up swallow my pride and be the true fan I actually consider myself to be...........

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Wow...just wow. I can understand how those who really wanted one of these limited items are upset.

I didn't even notice that they made 'special' jersey's for the tarpit crew until this thread. I didn't notice during the game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:19 pm 
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$300 was way too much even with the 20% discount. So much for the NLL "being affordable", eh?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Ninja 4 Hire wrote:
Cause they sit in a certain section? Cause they paint their faces?


Well, if you're looking for honest, then, yeah, I'd say the two above bits are much of the reason: Spike & Ronin lay claim to having come up with the Tar Pit name, and Voodoo and Spike are probably the two most recognizable fans in the building.

I'm just hoping you'll rail against the others who were also given the jerseys, like the 3 TV announcers, and who knows who else. That would take us up to 36 jerseys to be sold!

No, I'm not a fan of how these jerseys looked, but the fact that the organization decided to honor Spike, Ronin, and Voodoo doesn't bother me in the least. I just know that, with threads like this, it'll probably be the last time it happens.

As if Steve Govett didn't get enough * flung his way from us as it was. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:20 pm 
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Location: Denver Colorado
i was just very dissapointed with the blackout as a whole, of course there are always going to be those people who don't wear the color for one reason or another but as i've seen in miami with the NBA finals in 2005 giving the shirts away and not making people pay for them is the only way to get EVERYBODY to wear the shirt, i'm a fan and i paid for it anyway but not everyone is going to do that.

Now onto the other problem.

With over 8,000 season ticket holders it would be a bit unrealistic to give everyone a jersey but that doesn't excuse the fact that it seems the team was totally unprepared for a event that they pimped forever and at every game. When i heard on this board that they only had 30 jerseys for an event that we have all known about since the start of the season, the bad feeling started to creep into me. When i saw spike and voodoo with the jerseys i wasn't jealous as much as i was perplexed they had them on before the game started i didn't really think much of it.

Remember it's just a jersey it doesn't make them any more or less of a fan, keep in mind we all are on the same side in the long run.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:25 pm 
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$300 for the Blackout jersey is a greater price gouge than the ‘new style’ NHL jerseys (which are ridiculously over priced in my opinion). I loved the blackout jersey and would love for it to become a regular 3rd jersey with greater availability to the public. But not at that price!

Yes, I would have to agree with Ninja and Scott. As a fellow season ticket holder it makes me a little hot under the collar to know that a few choice ticket holders were able to get their hands on the jerseys before the rest of the public. I know that they are dedicated fans, but I do not see what holds them above any of us other dedicated fans.

To Ninja, in my opinion I would man up and keep the jersey, though IÂ’d be pretty mad about the whole thing for a while. However you are one of the few that were able to get your hands on and afford the much coveted jersey (I must say that I am pretty jealous). And when you wear it, you will know that you fought the crowd, stood in line missing the game, and getting the jersey in the appropriate manner and will be showing the rest of the arena what a dedicated, true and loyal fan you are!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:31 pm 
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I'm with Craig on this one. Ronin and Spike created the idea of the Tar Pit, which apparently is now being used to describe the fans as a whole. Hell, it's on the t-shirts and hats that they're now selling. Voodoo has been very involved with the organization, from monitoring boards to trying to start up a fan club (the club and the web site). In addition, he's so recognizable that he's like the poster boy fan.

I totally get where you guys are coming from. You've shown a lot of love and support for this team. However some may argue that being a super fan isn't just about showing your Mammoth Pride. It's also about using that pride and passion to recruit more super fans, which these guys have done.

They can't give us all jerseys, especially if RBK is being difficult. But this event really made me respect the organization even more, because it made me feel like they respect us.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:44 pm 
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I don't have a problem with them giving the jerseys to those guys, if any people deserve them it's those guys for sure. i am more mad at the store or rbk ot perhaps a combo of both for not being prepared for a huge demand of a product that we've heard about for months. Toss in the fact that mammoth played bad and this was just not one of our better days.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:52 pm 
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I respect every opinion here but my original post was toward Mr. Govett. I would prefer if the argument could be contained to another thread.

Thank you,

-Scott

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:00 am 
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My money is on RBK for the lack of jerseys. When it comes to supply and demad, they totally suck at it. At least when it comes to sports jerseys. There were forever shortages with Avs jerseys. It took me from the time the Avs 3rd jersey came out until last summer to finally get one! Everytime I went to by one they were sold out and didn't know when or if they were going to get any. Then when I did finally get it, the NHL decided to redo the jerseys and get rid of 3rd jerseys. The only reason you can get jerseys now is because they cost so darn much, no one wants to buy them! There also seems to be a shortage on authentic Mammoth jerseys when I go to buy one too. They either don't have them or only in 2 of the most unpopular sizes! In my opinion, RBK needs to learn the game of supply or the leagues need to find someone that can meet the needs!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:27 am 
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http://www.wingszone.com/nllmb/member.php?u=3532

I'll put this picture in my signature against a "#1 or #2 Mammoth fan". Yeah, that's in Buffalo after the Championship game that was virtually Tar Pit free. No offense fellow Mammoth fans, but this is wrong!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:41 am 
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Life isn't fair, move onto another thread.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Thank you for your question. I certainly apologize for your sentiments in this case. I think when you stop and consider all the circumstances in this case you might understand my approach. And by all means, I am not perfect and I too, make mistakes.

I am going to try and answer not only your question Scott, but many others that I have tried to remain silent on until today. Hopefully you can bear with me.

The "blackout" night has been considered for many years, the concept origniated with Gary Gait and myself talking about how we could improve the presentation of the game on television. The dasherboards being black was the genesis of the idea, we thought the white ball would show better on black boards rather than white. As the idea progressed we moved to helmets, jerseys, merchandise, crowd involvment and how to make that all happen.

For many reasons the ability to do all that couldn't come together until we focused earlier this season as a collective group with participation from all departments. As it became clear that we could pull this off we devoted more focus and energy to making the idea as good as we could.

The opportunity to develop a third jersey has been one that we have discussed for many years as well. The blackout created that opportunity. It was a lot of fun speculating on how it would look and the black out night lended itself to very little creativity. Bottom line, it had to be predominatly black!!! Along with a few others I wanted a very classic, vintage look. Working with the jersey manufacturers and our graphic design people we came up with a very simple, subtle, "classic" design.

We "borrowed" the approach that our "big brother" the Avalanche took with their third jersey, changed the concept with the team name and number on the front as opposed to using either our primary mark or our secondary mark (which most people have become averse to). Coincidently, the Dallas Stars wore a very similar jersey yesterday in their game against the Avs. We added the tie downs on the front neck, used the primary mark on the shoulders and used the mountains that have become the signature of our current uniforms. I happen to love the black jerseys and think that we accomplished everything we were going for with them. Could they have been better, of course, could they have been worse, of course, its all about taste, some like, some don't. The feedback that we received was that most people absolutely loved them, the players didn't want to let them go to auction!!!

As everyone knows, RBK is our uniform supplier, and have been for the past three years. What some people don't know is that Projoy is their contracted manufacturer. We have had our jerseys manufactured by Projoy from day one in Colorado, we have a great relationship with them and I love working with their people. I also want to assure everyone that the quality of the jerseys are exactly the same as day one, RBK did not change one thing when we started going through them to work with Projoy, the material and manufacturing process are identical to when we first started.

The only thing that has changed for us working with RBK is the process for ordering jerseys. When we worked with Projoy, even back to the Washington Power days, I could order jerseys in November for delivery to game one in December, along with the replicas for merchandise sales!!! We can't do that now, RBK is so big and does so many uniforms that our ordering process is done in March for the following season. It makes it difficult for great ideas like the black out night to be generated and produced during off season meetings. We would have to spend time now planning for next season, we try to do that but let me tell you its just not that easy when you are focused on today!!!

When we found out that other things were falling into place with our sponsors and the dasherboards, we special ordered the black out jerseys in January a couple of months ago, it was only through my very good relationship with Projoy and RBK that we were able to pull any of it off in this short time frame. The restriction because of timing was that there could be no run of replicas and only a total of 75 authentics, that are all game jerseys with exact stitching for each letter on the front and the numbers as well as numbers and names on the back. Projoy's production lines are booked months in advance so in order to pull something off and run ours there had to be a limit to the amount, obviously manufacturing jerseys takes time, each one limits their opportunity to produce other things that they are contracted for. This was an unavoidable situation because of our timing, this had nothing to do with a screw up with RBK or Projoy, both were very accomadating and outstanding to work with.

Of course we would have loved to have more, but in the eargerness to present the black out we wanted to turn a negative into a positive and create these jerseys as a Limited Edition Third Jersey. Each one would be customized, the stitching is exactly the same as the game worn jerseys (this adds some cost in the jersey construction, done expertly by our friends at Denver Athletic).

Simple supply and demand would dictate that a higher price for this limited edition, customized jersey was not outrageous. Never was this an attempt to gouge our very loyal fans but there is an "exclusive" nature to having on of these numbered first run, limited uniforms. Our job here is to sell merchandise, we felt this was the best way to do it considering the circumstances. From a simple business perspective, based on the fact that 30 jerseys sold out in 10 minutes perhaps we underestimated the demaind and didn't price them high enough.

Scott, on to your issue. When Josh Gross, inadvertently and quite innocently revealed the third jersey concept in the broadcast on Saturday, January 26th, it created a whirlwind of interest. We had never intended to discuss it at all. We wanted it to be a complete surprise during the intros of last Saturday's game. We would announce the on sale and what we had would go on sale at halftime as planned. Once it was out of the bag, we remained solid on our game plan. Through the many posts and questions I have remained silent in an effort to stick to the plan, as it were. I am sure you all know how much that killed me!!!

Once the word was out, I was asked by two people if they could get their hands on those jerseys. Voodoo asked me as he was walking into Blue Sky Grill after a game and Spike asked me inside Blue Sky Grill after another game if he could get one for him and his good friend Ronin when he was telling me about his plans to attend the All Star game. Both asked me before the real buzz began about the jerseys themselves, prior to the calls to the Altitude Authentics store discussing the quantity and price.

The people that work in the store were asked not to share information but unfortunately did. Again, we were attempting to create some drama in the jersey's release. That information created a fervor last week that I was forced to sit back and watch. At the end of the day, the circumstances did create passionate response from our fans, good and bad.

Either way, when these two people asked for the jerseys, I had no idea if we would even sell one, so when someone asks about something you are trying to move you don't say no. I have had a very long standing relationship with Spike, I gave him his nickname (it wasn't that much of a stretch if you had seen his hair six years ago) at the first or second game in Mammoth history while I was doing a radio interview in the grand atrium. Now I am sure this could be argued, but Spike was the first Mammoth fan that I had ever seen paint his face, I have always been very impressed with this. This could also be argued but he and Ronin, to my knowledge, coined the phrase "tar pit", a place in the lacrosse world that has become synonymous with the Mammoth and our passionate fans.

Voodoo has also been a tremendous supporter, he stepped up when I asked for him to be a moderater on this site, he has met with me about a fan club (an idea that I would like to continue to pursue). He has always taken time out of his busy post game schedule to share with me his thoughts on the game and the team, and he has never pulled a punch with me. I always enjoy our chats, and he always seeks me out to say hello and shake my hand. Certainly, most would agree he has evolved as the defacto face of Mammoth Nation. This is obviously not to say that he is the most important Mammoth fan, he just might be the most visible.

These three jerseys were asked for and I said yes, very simple. I agreed that I would set aside three for them. Had someone else asked I would have done the same for them, they asked.

Because the customization was always part of the purchase price, I had our people find out what names and numbers they would want on theirs. It was a gesture of good will to those three that we would have the customization done along with our game jerseys. It actually saved us money. I thought it would be a nice touch that we had them done at half time, so that they could put them on for the remainder of the game.

So in closing, I apologize again that this upset you. The only reason they rendered special services is because they asked me and I said yes. I don't think it was wrong to have them customized early, especially since we knew who was going to have them and what they wanted on them, when this was part of the purchase price anyway, it was my attempt to do something nice for them.

This was not a measurement of anyone's fandom, it was not a contest to as to who is the greater fan, it was quite simply trying to be accomadating to people who have shown support to the organization and to me personally. I happen to know these guys only because they have made themselves known to me. By the way, KBPI didn't pay for those two fans to attend the championship game, the Mammoth did, KBPI just ran the contest, hopefully this isn't resented because they received special treatment.

Actions speak louder than words, and I hope my actions over the course of the last 6 years have proven at least a little that every fan is special and important. If not for the outstanding fans of the Mammoth we are not even close to the success that we are, and I thank you fans every day.

I apologize to any of those people that took offense to the gesture, it was certainly never intended to offend.

SG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:29 pm 
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Thanks Steve as always for your honest response.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:24 pm 
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Thank you as always for your honest and very insightful answer


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:58 pm 
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Steve, if you ever give up GMing, do consider writing press releases for a living. :)

JC


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:19 pm 
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I am way too long winded to write press releases!

But you can look for my book sometime in the future!!

SG


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 Post subject: .
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:41 pm 
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i hate reading but i would have to read a book that you wrote.
please do tell us when it is published.
thanks

jake


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:23 am 
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Thanks Steve. I'm sorry I was involved in this situation and I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for everything you do for the Mammoth. The team wouldn't be the same without you.

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