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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:39 pm 
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I have been a Professional Sports Official for the Continental Basketball Association (CBA) and the World Basketball League (WBL). I was the West coast trainer, evaluator, and Head official for the WBL; Norm Drucker (former NBA Official) was the Cheif of Officials for the entire League. Additionally, I was the Head of Officials for the National Touch Football League for it's short existence. Steve Foley, Billy White Shoes Johnson and Roger Staubach all had teams. Why is this important...I know officiating!

The blatant Officiating mistakes made Saturday night should NEVER exceed Little League level! Just a few examples.... At 9:20 of the 3rd, John Grant makes a from behind the net goal....no question the ball was in the net! However, immediately before that, Pollock attempts a shot from the left side and misses and ends up in the crease while John Grants shot goes in the net. Take a look at the play! Pollock was pushed into the crease...this is important! But NO MATTER what, play should have been stopped for either a successful goal or a crease violation. If for the goal, determination would have had to be rendered by The striped #9 as to whether or not Pollock in the crease would have been a nullifying factor to Grants goal. Matters not...play should have been stopped...it was NOT.

At 9:50 of the 4th, Pollock is on a 2 man breakaway with a 100% clear shot at the net. He is interfered with, from behind with an around the neck hook by the defender in an attempt to disrupt the goal shot. this could have immediately been declared a breakaway goal and no shot would have even had to be attempted! Even if not declared a breakaway goal, it was still a goal by rule 68.8 which states...

68.8 CONTACT INITIATED BY DEFENDER ON ATTACKER INTO THE CREASE - If a player
of the attacking side has been illegally interfered with by the action of a defending player so
as to cause him to be in the goal crease and the ball should enter the net while the player
so interfered with is still in the goal crease, the goal shall be allowed.

So what was striped #9 looking at when he went to the replay? All he saw was a crease violation...why? ...simple...he DOES NOT know the rules! Additionally, when Vinc was found sitting on the ball within the goal area....Hello ! Watch the play on You Tube....the very last replay actually shows the ball under Vinc and behind the goal line while Vinc is still falling to the ground. He is not fully at rest on the turf and the ball is in goal! It can be argued that the front goal line follows the the plane of the front of the net...this is fine if the net becomes dislodged for reasons other than a goalies defensing a play...think about it....if this were allowed, the goalie could displace the net at will in order to gain a defensive advantage.

The other missed call was a goal early in the came, reviewed and nullified; again by stripped #9. The ONLY replay that could have possibly nullified the goal was a super slow motion replay that was VERY blurred. All other replays indicate a goal and the official on the floor called it a goal. Basic elementary level officiating...it WAS a goal!

The Nighthawks were called for two penalties that where total reactionary calls by ...you guessed it...striped #9. I watch the officiating as an evauluator, I do not favor the Mammoth or the opponent when it comes to calls. The NLL needs to clean up the officiating...it is deplorable as far as professional standards go. They can start by stripping # 9 of his stripes!

In closing...take a look at BAGZ comments, they are excellent! I Love Box Lacrosse, it is an awesome sport with some of the best athletes...it deserves the best in officiating!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:31 pm
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Location: Let's try the same thing and see if the results change
Was it terrible calls, yes. Is it sad that we have come to expect nothing less, yes. Is it still on the coach to throw the flag as opposed to staring of into the distance, yes.

I agree that the refs are not of optimal quality, but between our diving and Willie B saying everything should go our way it's not shocking that we get as many calls as non calls.

I am still super upset with Hamley after the Jr. no goal, gotta throw that flag, and he wastes his challenges on two other bad challenges. Really hard time swallowing that pill...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:57 pm
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Location: GOLDEN
Wastes the flag on bad challenges? 2 of these horrible calls were challenged and still called wrong. The one with Vince sitting on the ball across the line and the one where the replay was very blurry and still overturned. Challenges don't help if the officiating is SO horrible that they make bad calls even when watching the replay over and over again.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Location: Section 124, Row 16, Seat 5
The officiating for this league has sucked since there was a league.
There seems to be no punishment for a ref screwing up time and time agian, so they have no reason to correct themselves.
That being said, that Vladimir Putin lookin' mother$#@!er is hands down the worst lax ref I've seen in a long, long time, (and this is including having to see lots and lots of Todd Labranche,).

In regards to the challenges, the overturn of Westy's goal was bush. You need CONCLUSIVE effidence, not "I think, therefore maybe" to overturn a call. That was called a goal, should have stayed a goal. Had they called it a non-goal, it should have stayed a non-goal on review. Classic NLL ref skyward fornication.

The one where Vinc was laying on the ball after the net moved, I'm OK with. While the video showed the ball across the line, it also showed the ball resting on the magnet that keeps the net in place. Would that ball have gone in had the goal stayed put? Possibly could have bounced off, sure. Do we know enough to make a concerete call? Not at all. I can live with that.

But the reffing didn't cost the Mammoth the game; scoring 2 goals in the first half cost the Mammoth the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:43 pm 
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I was much more upset about the lack of clarification to the fans than the actual call on that goal. Everyone in the arena saw the replay of the ball across the line. It was clear that there was some reason to call it a non goal because I didn't think that the ref was that blind to not see that during such a long review, but the fans were completely ignored and left in the dark when the call was made.

It is the same issue as all the unanswered questions on this forum. Govett is ignoring critical questions on his forum page and answering the softer questions. The issues in this forum involving coaching philosophies are being ignored.

The refs, coaches, and gm's are forgetting who ultimately pay them and - if the fans continue to be ignored - who will stop paying them.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:31 pm
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Location: Let's try the same thing and see if the results change
Bagz wrote:
Wastes the flag on bad challenges? 2 of these horrible calls were challenged and still called wrong. The one with Vince sitting on the ball across the line and the one where the replay was very blurry and still overturned. Challenges don't help if the officiating is SO horrible that they make bad calls even when watching the replay over and over again.


If you watch the Vinc one carefully the ball was A. Not visible under until the play was blown dead and B. It was actually sitting on top of where the black dot is for the post. Like Ronin said you need incontrovertible evidence to overturn, ruled no goal to start so no way to overturn that one.

I am not with everyone on the Westervelt goal, but hey that happens. They may have botched that one, but blaming the refs has become to common place and an excuse to the crap performance this team is putting out.

Clarification has never come from Willie B, at least Langtry added some facts to the game instead of just getting everyone all riled up when the call didn't go our way.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:48 am 
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Whether the ball was sitting on the magnet or not does not matter as it is behind the goal line.

Conveniently everytime the ball was near Vinc and he didn't know where it was he "fell" backwards and moved the goal. At what point does he get punished for that? I understand that the magnets are not as efficient as the moorings in the NHL but I've never seen a goalie move the net that drastically that many times.

The ref's are pathetic and while I agree that ultimately officiating shouldn't and most times doesn't determine the OUTCOME of the game it often does effect the flow and energy level of a team.


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